The Facebookidek Priesthood

I don't know if any of you have heard anything about this yet... but supposedly the Mormons are putting in a bid to buy Facebook. With some 30 billion dollars in the bank, it looks like they can afford it too.

So what changes can we expect in Facebook if this really does happen. First of all, in the religion category you will only have two options... Mormon or Future Mormon. All picture containing drinking of alcohol will have a computer-generated Coca-Cola logo superimposed on the bottle/can/keg (advertising... how else do you think they get all that money?). The New Feed will stream any newly acquired information about your ancestry. There will be slots to include more than one wife/girlfriend in your relationship status. Once you sign up you will automatically be added to the "You Know You're Mormon If..." Facebook group. There will be a newly added "Knock-knock" option. Here Mormon missionaries can solicit your Facebook as well. The only thing is, there is no ignore option for this feature. And obviously, this will be the default picture on anyone's account who hasn't upload their own pic.

What about the name Facebook? Will that change? "Facebook of Latter Day Saints." The "Face book of Mormon." Maybe, "Face It Joseph Smith Was A Prophet Book." Or perhaps, "That Social Networking Site That Used To Be Awesome."

My long time readers will know that I've spent some time with the Mormons, getting to know them and their beliefs. I like them. This was some joking, I didn't really mean to be too disrespectful; however, with $30 Billion, why not do something good, instead of just building churches and sending people to my door. It would take an estimated $60 Billion to cut world hunger in half... as I see it, the Mormons should have us half way there.

I know they send young missionaries all over the world, to both wealthy and impoverished countries, but why does it always seem that growing religious groups are so concerned with PR in the ways that don't matter, like Facebook. Get good PR with the sick and dying rather than the teenage computer user. Maybe I'll call the new set of Mormon missionaries in my area so I can throw some hard questions at them, and give them a little perspective.

I got this news from 9to5mac.com of all places.

I Don't Know If You Can Handle My Jesus

My apologies if this is scattered. I have a bunch of things prancing through my head (yes prancing) and I think they all have a common thread, but we shall soon find out

I spent much of this week, and especially the last few days, studying. Tonight I had another encounter of the Mormon variety. You know those encounters, you're a little unsure of how things are going to go, they say a few cool things, some weird things, and before you know it you're back home, having lost 2 hours, but your pants are pressed, your shirt is buttoned, and you think somehow your teeth seem whiter than they did before. At least I was able to pick up some chicks on my way home. By the way, if you don't know me that's a sarcastic lie used to make people grin or possibly chuckle if they have not developed a tolerance to me.

So I was studying because tonight it was 4 on 1. Four Mormons on one lowly rejected Christian. I didn't know how things would go tonight, but I always like to prepare as if will be a debate, especially when the odds appear so stacked against me. I'm not attempting to sacrifice any Mormons at the altar of Steve's Knowledge, but I don't want look foolish either (I seriously spent 3 minutes thinking of a witty way to say the latter half of that last sentence, but all of them seemed inappropriate or made no sense).

Our night was heavily consumed with Baptism. The attendees of Scripture Smackdown '08 were Kyle and Steve (the Mormon missionaries) , Morgan and Morgan (a father and daughter duo with the same first name... weird), and myself. Missionary Steve said little as usual. Dad Morgan was in and out of the room, but generally liked to gloss over the differences with long simple statements that resounded to "Can't we all just get along?" I appreciated these and they helped refocus us, but at the same time they sometimes tried to give negligence to the importance of an issue at hand... luckily they only helped me refocus to what crucial element was at the heart of the topic. Daughter Morgan was really neat. She'd listen. She'd agree if I said something that may not agree with what she said, but was correct. She had a sweet way about her that was patient, kind, and knew scripture really well; so it was nice discussing these things with her. Kyle was usually the leader. He likes to talk and try to dominate his way into being right, but not in a horrible way. He will not admit he has interpreted a verse wrong when I put it in context. He will say he can see where I'm coming from, but he will not say that he was mistaken and hold to his original viewpoint. That bugs me more than anything.

The talk was concerned mostly around the idea of baptism. They believe you must physically be water baptized to be saved (in a manner of speaking). I do not agree with this though. I believe it is really an issue of a repentant heart and a life that takes on the calling of Christ. We talked about water baptism vs. spiritual baptism and other stuff that didn't matter much. At the heart the problem was that even though I've been baptized, it doesn't matter. The authority of my baptism wasn't correct for me to have fulfilled that command they believe God ordained. I don't believe it's man's authority but God's authority through Jesus. I was baptized in the name of Jesus just as the Mormons were. This is the issue, and it seems like one they struggle with too to a certain extent.

I believe in a Jesus that is all about the heart. I believe in a God who is all about what Jesus has shown Him to be about. God cares about our heart. His punishment is for our heart. His blessing is for our heart. His example is for our heart. Through these his Spirit of Truth dwells within our heart. This is why the Spirit is so much greater than the law. The law is Jewish. The law is religious. The law is rigid. But the Spirit is universal. The Spirit is flowing. The Spirit is life-giving.

This isn't to say that the law is pointless and void. Like Jesus said, he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. But the law as a religious ritual is dead. It is about taking the wisdom that the law showed and incorporating it with the passion of hope and love. This isn't a religion of exclusivity, but it's a life choice to which all are welcome. I think of Jesus with the Samaritan woman saying that a time is coming and is now here when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. I think of Jesus talking to a Roman centurion, probably believing in mythological gods, and yet Jesus says that he hasn't seen such great faith in all of Israel as he has seen in this man. It's just... available. It's not set on rules. It's set on hoping in the impossible Jesus hoped in. It's about loving God and loving others. It's about having a pure, repentant heart that desires to live out the hope it professes. Beyond that, what does it matter?

We've made a legalistic religion out of a Way. That's what the early church called itself. It wasn't a religion. They were Jews before and they were still Jews. The difference was the life they lived. Jesus can go further because he's not bound down by legalism. He is uplifted by a universal call to trust in God and not man, to realize how he unfairly (for Him) stuck with us, and to love in good nature and good work. This allows Jesus to live outside of religion. You can corrupt doctrine, but you cannot corrupt the Truth.

When I got home tonight I went to FriendlyAtheist.com. The first article I noticed was about Mormonism ironically. A young man faced with what his church doctrine actually endorses made him question it. His questioning led him to research. His research led him to more doubt. His church led him to no answers. And no answers led him to atheism. All because Jesus had a anchor of doctrine tied to his feet. When this man grabbed onto Jesus, despite all the good Jesus brought; the undeniable good found in Him, you're still going to sink from the weight of legalism. You can't swim freely with an anchor chained to your feet.

I could relate to this story. How the more I learned the more I doubted some of the things I had been spoon fed as truth. The reluctance for anyone to try to supply a real satisfactory answer is leading me away from them. Luckily God has proved Himself. I will not give up on the Gospel of Jesus because of the bad news of rigid, unchallenged doctrine.

I continued on to the comments and found another story of interest. In some ways I felt like this story is my story. Surely not exactly, but a majority of the feelings (both good and bad) are identical. We have become division mongers. We separate against anything different in fear of contamination. We don't even realize sometimes if something is becoming infected until we can compare elsewhere. Tap water looks fine until you put it by distilled water.

I'm not opposed to doctrine completely. I adhere to doctrine, as does every other person (I believe). They are the rules of what you believe, even if you believe in nothing. The danger comes in making those rules stiff to keep outsiders out, while not allowing additional truth to sneak in. We adhere to doctrine for its wisdom, but if we do not give it room to grow we may all either be squished like playdough or squeezed out of the box we have put faith in. Thus why you find cookie-cutter Christians or ex-Christians so often.

I haven't fully discovered Him, but I definitely believe in a Jesus that is for everyone... not just theologically or theoretically, but pragmatically.

Jesus... He's Magic!

One thing that has kind of bugged me lately is how Christians tend to believe in Jesus because of his miracles.

Jesus turned water into wine, walked on water, rose the dead to life, calmed a storm, regenerated a man's ear, made the blind see, and so on.

If you take a moment and think of God. Wonder at His power. Dwell upon His omnipotence. Gape at His mystery. He is so far beyond anything we can imagine.

If God is so immense and grand in his power, why are we so impressed with the simple miracles he does? Not that they are meaningless or on par with our ability, but they are nothing for God. It takes less than a micro-fraction of power for God to turn water into wine or walk on water. It's like I wonder what's the point of caring so much about those things, when they demonstrate very little of God's greatness.

I far too often think of this Family Guy clip, when thinking of Jesus's miracles.






I tend to progress toward the deeper things, believing that things like Jesus's miracles are used to point to a grander theme.

For instance...

1. Jesus turning water into wine - Could have been his approval of parties of gathering together to celebrate something excellent, like the wedding Jesus was at. Even to show that God desires for those celebrations to continue on and on, and Jesus allowed the party to progress by supplying more wine.
2. Jesus healing the blind - Could show how God desires all of us to have the ability to see his glory.
3. Raising people from the dead - Could be a precursor to the resurrection God desires for all of us, as well as a spiritual rebirth into life in this world, found in salvation.

Notice these are all "could's." Honestly, I can find other ways of relating all of these to the deeper. But ultimately, even to the point of Jesus dying and raising from the dead, it seems there is something deeper there. If people believe Jesus is God, or at least that he is endowed with God's Spirit and Power, why should it be amazing for him to raise from the dead? He already raised other people, why not himself? Or more Biblically, God raises him, which should be very doable for the supreme being of the world.

To me the greater miracle there is that God could actually love me. That God could forgive me. It's something much deeper and much less believable than for God to raise another person from the dead... but rather to raise my spirit from its death. A physical miracle that we see shows what God can do, but a miracle that follows us individually and as humanity for all our days and beyond shows who God is. Seeing what God can do is impressive, but seeing who God is unbelievable. What truly displays God's brilliance is how he shines in ways that I wasn't even aware of. What seemed foolish to me is shown as perfect through God.

And I do believe there is something there... something of value in this perspective. But tonight I'm going to take a step back a moment, and perhaps move away from the deeper to look at miracles.

You cannot deny the Old Testament use of miracles and wonders to display the authenticity and power of God. When He was questioned, fireballs would come from heaven. When He long to help His children, plagues swept Egypt to instill the fear of the Lord in them. When a great military man with leprosy came to Elisha, he was made pure by dipping in a body of water 7 times. Bodies of water were separated more than once for men to walk across them and armies were defeated without a single blow by their opponent.

The Old Testament is held together by all these displays of God's power. It's essential in proving Himself and distinguishing Himself from the other gods. This is something followed up all the way to the New Testament, and even to now.

We know about all of Jesus's crazy miracles, but you hear less about the apostles, and especially less about any going on now... well apart from Benny Hinn (HA!) I think the truth is that the apostles didn't write about their miracles so much (although they are definitely documented). It seems the concentration was on showing people how following Jesus looked in their lives (by following the way), and then encouraging them in that way. The preaching and living of the gospel, from what I can gather at least, was much more on the priority list than miracles.

Why would this be? Miracles bring recognition to something. Miracles validated Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Jesus, the apostles, etc., etc., etc., and ultimately God to people, whether they be Jew or gentile. But at the same time, not all prophets had these great displays by their side. Many had nothing but their words... well God's words.

For some prophets, you had to wait to see if what they said came true to know if they were really a prophet of God. Others you knew pretty quick. Why the difference? Why don't they all prove themselves with flashiness?

I think it was necessary (at least to a certain extent) for Jesus to perform miracles. It's what gave him street cred, especially with his new, somewhat unconventional, message of Truth. They were cool and respectable tricks, but ultimately it was his words that were the miracle. A new way of living that made the impossible now present.

I've continued talking with Mormon missionaries. They always ask me if I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I think not, but honestly don't know enough to answer fully. I do know he hasn't seemed to prove himself with any miracles. I don't believe any significant predictions have come to pass, and as of yet I don't feel his words don't piece, or always line up with God or history, like those of Jesus and the other prophets. People who follow Smith do some really good things, but those who do not follow him at times do even cooler thins than Smith's followers. So who do you believe when both are doing awesome things in the name of God?

How do I distinguish the true prophets from the false ones? Well I don't know if miracles can be my key, but I suppose they could help. You certainly cannot trust someone just because they make a claim to be a prophet. The two direct ways you can know a prophet are these: What he says comes true and the words will have the fire of the Lord's Truth igniting them.

For now, I guess the best thing to do would be test the words of any other prophet, to see if they have a fire to them (in life and by igniting the Word of God). And in the mean time, follow the prophets who have proved themselves. Jesus is the foremost prophet I choose to follow, and his command was to love each other, so any word from God should revolve around that.

This is something I'm still wrestling with, so if you have any insights I would love to hear them, so I can learn and grow.

I'm exhausted, my apologies if this post makes no sense.

Mormons Need More Overweight Black Guys On Their Team

Christian Guy Totally Owns Mormons - Watch more free videos



I really enjoyed this video.
I love the Mormons... but I love Jesus more.

I've seen Christians do the same thing of strolling in to educate people, when they actually know very little. Once the tide changes directions they become uncomfortable. But for the arrogant and ignorant of any faith/religion, humility is a blessed thing of worth for the humbled and enjoyment for the spectator.

But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

- Luke 21:14-15

LDS or LSD?

Well I finally ventured out of my home and met my Mormon friends on their turf. Bring... It... ON!

Let me clarify something real quick. There are those of you who may be concerned about my relationship with "another faith." You may feel that I am getting pulled into what they believe. I surely hope that happens in some ways. I hope that the good things they have rub off on me, but I certainly am not at the place of declaring myself a Mormon, or Joseph Smith a prophet. This is something I hope to do with many faiths. Mormons are just first. Jewish, Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, Buddhist, Hindu, and whatever other kind of faith offers itself to me; I would like to observe it and see what it is about. I certainly hold my faith in God and His love and grace through Jesus very dear, but I don't think God is completely absent from all other belief systems; thus they can possibly teach me another side of God and myself that I hadn't realized previously.

I attended "my" church today. I think I will go for one or two more weeks before I venture off elsewhere. When I got home I grabbed a quick bite, since the LDS church doesn't start until 1... awesome and crazy all at the same time. It also lasts three hours... also awesome and crazy at the same time. I changed my shirt to a button down with a tie, since that's how they do. I realized my shirt was cream colored and not white, and therefore was not too far off the shade of my pants. I switched to a blue shirt from working at Radioshack, but it just wasn't right for at tie. I found old pinstripe dress pants, just barely fit into those... but my belt didn't. My belt haloed around my waste about a quarter inch out, since it was too big and the pants were too thin. I ended up going back to the original, figuring it wasn't that close and no one would really care/notice.

I sped off to the LDS church and got there just in time, but they run late I guess. I met up with Kyle and he showed me around the facility. I met a few other people. And was reintroduced to a girl I went to high school with, Morgan. She didn't really remember me, but I had a class with her and hung out with some of her good friends (she's a year older than me). Morgan was super nice and very smiley/talkative. I remember she was always very nice.

Kyle and I found a seat and sat behind Morgan and her family.


The bishop got up and started speaking, mostly giving announcements. Now let me tell you something. Apparently Mormons love having kids, and for this part of the service the kids stay with the parents. There was noise the entire time up there, while the not-to-inspiring bishop muddled through the church happenings. The thing that I really wasn't expecting from such considerate Mormons is this; they loved to talk while this bishop dude was speaking. I think it was the kids created a blanket of noise, where their whispers could hide. Looking around the room, it appeared a quarter of them were whispering something at any moment. This did get better during the service, but definitely did not cease.

Two of the elders (missionaries like Kyle and Steve) got up to speak, since they were being moved to another location. They gave a few words and a testimony of the experience in the area. I thought this was really neat. It gave them an opportunity to tell what God was speaking to them, what their ministry looked like, and how people in the church had affected/inspired them in their journey.

Now it was time for hymns. I didn't expect this time to be invigorating, but it was little more than a murmur. The Catholics stand when they sing hymns don't they? LDS does not stand apparently. It just seemed like that time had very little merit to deserve the breath it took. Surely singing praises/hymns to God can be awesome, but only if there is depth to it. But yeah, I felt like t here was no point in even doing it.

We then had Communion. I forget what term they used for it. They pass around plates with the bread and water, not so different from my church, but I just didn't quite know the gist of how they did it. It was a rather fast thing. Grab a piece of bread, throw it in your mouth, pass the plate. Wait a while, grade a thing of water, down it, throw the empty container into a hole in the plate, then pass the plate. It was just kind of... rushed.

I think we sang another hymn after Communion, then it was time to be taught. Now this is cool, and one of my favorite things about the church. I think it's quite possible that they have no paid church staff. I don't know for sure, but that seems to be the case. The bishop is appointed for a short term (not sure, maybe a year or two) and the people who speak are chosen weekly from the congregation I believe. The was a woman of probably almost 60 and a man who was maybe five years older than her. The topic was atonement. Neither of them were professional speakers obviously. They didn't have the polish that my pastor has, but he does it every week.

The first woman had clearly done a lot of study on the matter, and looked for thoughts from many sources. She was almost a little boring, but you could tell she was thrilled to be up there, despite her composure. It was all very important, very real, and in some ways a recent exploration to learn more about the topic. Definitely very raw and organic. At one point she even started to tear up as she was talking about the state of things in the world like packed halfway houses, abortion, and the need for love. It was very neat.

The next guy was more used to speaking. He had lead a decent bit of group studies in the church and used to be a biology teacher. I was just thinking to myself, as he stated stuff about nourishment and biology, that getting different perspectives is so beneficial. As someone who is very knowledgeable about biology, he probably looks at scripture much differently in processing its significance. I couldn't help but wish other churches practiced this more often.

Afterwards, Kyle told me some speakers are better and some are worse, some boring some exciting, and everywhere in between. Honestly though, it's a tough gig. You're conveying something very important, and something you have lots of notes on, while little kids are squawking the whole time. It must be very distracting. I was proud of them.

After that we sang another 20 second hymn (only two lines) and it was over. Morgan's mom told me not to judge them on their singing. It was funny because I sort have had a little. Then I chatted with Kyle a bit. He introduced me to the bishop. The bishop asked me if I was single... I don't know if he was hitting on me. It was strange, but pretty funny. Morgan told me about their young adults ministry (although she didn't call it that). I told her she could call me about stuff, since they have a lot of game nights and stuff, and I like games.

I expected to be completely smothered by Mormons saying hi and trying to get to know me, but that wasn't the case. They were nice, but not really more than anyone at my church would be. I guess their reputation just made me expect more. It was really just like a Methodist or Presbyterian church without a pastor. So I guess in some ways I was expecting more, just because they're the ONE true church. Thought it would be a little less ordinary.

I know Kyle will probably be leaving in a few weeks or month, but Morgan will be around. I think I'll be talking to her more, since she is someone who knows her stuff, but also is probably good at discussion. My friend from high school, Adam, is one of her best friends. He's studying theology at school and gives her some good questions I guess. I think we'll have some good talks. Definitely reminds me of my friend Kelly... super nice, positive, knowledgeable, and good for a debate. This is mostly speculative, but I can tell.

So I expect this is the start of a good friendship between the LDS and myself. Hopefully you got something out of my first LDS church analysis. Next week I may stay for all three hours (only one hours this week). I'll make a "LDS or LSD? (part two)" post if I do.

Now it's time to make friends with some other faiths.

Mormons Not Morons

So I had my third meeting with my new Mormon friends... at least I hope they consider me a friend.

They came over tonight for dinner and conversation. The thing about them, and I don't know if it's all Mormons (I'm so generalizing it's not even funny), but they always get there early. I'm already running behind as is, then they come 15 minutes early! These guys are walking though, so it must be hard to gauge properly.

From the start it was a much more relaxed meeting than previous ones. It was like we were free to shoot the breeze, rather than mozy right into doctrine.

First Kyle asked me about the MonaVie on my couch. So I told him about the wonders of MonaVie and my semi-recent lifestyle change. He expressed how he had started eating healthy before he began his 2-year missions thing, where he eats junk food and stuff.

Then we got into politics and presidential candidates. Obviously they can't say Mormons endorse anything about what he had to say, but I think Kyle and Steve were thinking McCain, escially in hopes that Romney would be VP. I did feel it was kind of funny how they so openly endorsed Romney because it seemed a little too... expected... cliche... automatic. But hey, whatever.

From there we slipped into a talk on war, and if it's good, tolerable, or bad. We all knew it wasn't good. But tolerable/necessary and always bad brought up some good debate. It was a fun talk, while I continued to prepare dinner. I made a potato, pepper (yellow, red, orange, green), red onion, celery, pinapple, orange baked thing with olive oil, some butter, and lemon juice. It turned out pretty good I guess.

Later, around dinner we started talking about Mormon beliefs a bit more. I presented some stuff I had read that posed major questions to me, as to Joseph Smith's prophet status. It's an online book, which I haven't finished (similar video version); however, it wasn't looking good for Smith. I'll have to finish it, but I mentioned what was presented thus far anyway. Kyle and Steve knew little about the question of Smith's correctness in interpreting the "Book of Abraham" from a Egyptian papyrus, which scholars said to be only a death record. It is important since Smith himself had claims via his prophecies, that God's prophets could translate any ancient writing. If Smith can't, by his own claims, he is not a prophet.

Beyond that we talked some more about prophets, a line of high priests, human authorities, the afterlife, and more. I was, and am pretty skeptical of a lot of things they say. I am not against believing Joseph could have been a prophet, or even that Jesus came to the America's. The problem comes in their doctrine seeming to go against what I feel was the way of Jesus. Where Jesus was sending away the idea of elite people, or God being hidden at times. I feel this was open to all peoples of all faiths, if they obeyed Jesus's and Gods teachings. The verse just linked also goes to show that Jesus's words are always with us, and available whenever we seek him. This opposes the Mormon belief that man without a guiding prophet cannot be who God desires. I am not against prophets, but Jesus promised his availability. Prophets certainly could and may help, but I don't think a prophet is necessary for me to commune with God and know his will.

At the end of the evening, Kyle asked me if I believed Joseph Smith was the prophet he claimed to be. I told them that I wasn't there and was certainly learning towards "no," but wouldn't make a definite decision without first examining it and praying about it. Kyle opened up at that point and something really shined through him.

He began to tell me about some of the hardship that comes with giving up two years of his life at such a young age. He sacrificed playing sports at college, a girlfriend that could very easily choose to leave him during his missions, seeing two of his sisters get married, meeting his two new nieces/nephews, and a life that could be much more nice and normal. He gains no money for doing this, in fact he had to raise all the money. None of the Mormon organizers/priests/prophets... no one receives money for who they are (according to Kyle). There is no reason to pretend, because it's not lucrative and requires much sacrifice. Kyle's moments of laying it all down reminded me of Paul boasting of his trials for Christ, but not in arrogance. Kyle didn't seem arrogant, but he believed in something and desired to stand before God having done the things God called him to do. It was a beautiful display, and I felt like God and His Spirit was very much in every word.

I let Kyle know he should not wait so long to tell his testimony, because it is the most powerful and convincing thing either of them had said. The testimony says more than any of the scripture says on its own.

I truly still do not feel confident in the prophet status of Joseph Smith, or at the very least, lack validation for many of the doctrines brought forth by him. I do feel much more confident that Christ is active in their faith. They may be wrong about many things or I may be wrong about many things, but most probable is that we are both wrong about many things. Despite our wrongness, I do believe we are brothers in Christ, working for a common goal. I see God moving, so undeniably, in their faith, and I have seen his Spirit's impact on their individual lives. Whatever their doctrine, I personally can learn much from their lives and spring forward in my journey by the encouragement they share.

:::I don't know why I really put that picture at the top, other than it's Romney. It doesn't depict my experience with Mormons at all:::

A New Kind Of Mormon

Oh baby, do I wish she had come to me door. I'd convert.

But she didn't. And two other Mormons did. Here's the story...

I was online looking for free stuff, and I came across a link for a free Book of Mormon. So i figured, "what the heck, why not?" After all, I did want to learn a bit about what they believe. My only education had come from South Park(Bad Language). Apparently I wasn't the only one.

So again, why not? I'll get a Book of Mormon in the mail. A few days later I was at my mom's and on my way out to go to a church dinner. As I was walking out two guys in suits and coats were walking up. They were hand delivering the Book of Mormon (at least they weren't here to kill me) . I was not prepared and on my way out, but I was excited to talk to them. I had always wanted Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses to come to my house.

We talked outside in the cold for about 20 minutes. They told me a little bit about what they believed and I asked them lots of questions and showed a few problems and concerns I found with their outlook of scripture, so I challenged them to think about those things. As we were parting I asked their names. They told me Elder so-in-so and Elder so-in-so. I was confused for a second and asked if they had first names. Kyle and Steve. I told them I'd like to get together again soon.

A few days ago I got a call from Kyle (Elder Porterfield, I think) and I invited him and Steve over for dinner so we could talk more. That was last night.

We talked for over two hours. They started their path of explaining to me their beliefs and validating them through scripture, as best they could. I certainly wasn't making it the easiest lesson, seeing as how I would interject with question or ideas, which would take us down another road for the next 10 minutes, only to come back to where we started.

I'd like to think they enjoyed our time together and the challenge I brought them in knowing their faith and making sure it is correct. I know I enjoy that very much, and it was two against one (if you want to see it that way) so hopefully they enjoyed it and didn't feel like I was "after them." I do believe I made it clear that I consider them my brothers in Christ, and really just want all of us to have a better understanding of what we believe, why, and if the Bible and God really back that thinking.

As best I can tell, the main differences between Mormons and more Evangelical types are just a few.

1. Mormons believe Joseph Smith was a prophet; but more than that they believe that prophets are required for men to not lose track of God's path. They believe that the time after the apostles and before Joseph Smith was a great apostasy, which is basically a falling away from God as explained to me. Joseph Smith and the line of prophets that followed him are here to keep us on the straight and narrow.
2. The Mormon afterlife is different.
   
1. They believe in three levels of afterlife: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, which are in order of progression towards God's glory. I thought it was odd that telestial would be before terrestrial, since terrestrial means "ground or earth," as far as I know, and telestial should mean outside the earth, like telescope. I thought I was told last night that telestial was while we're on Earth, like now, I think... but wikipedia seems to say otherwise. I may have misheard.
2. They believe that we can do things for those who have already died, in a way atoning for them, which seems off even for their beliefs.
3. They do not believe in Hell. They believe that it's a progress of understanding God's way I think.
4. In some ways, many ways really, I think what they believe makes more sense with my confusion of ghosts/spirits/channeling/etc. It certainly doesn't make all sense, and they said they don't like talking about it, because it's not the point of their faith, just a part. I understood that. I think some of it makes sense, but is with holes... certainly more sense than "When I die I immediately go to heaven or hell," at least in my mind.
3. "As we are God was, as God is we one day will be." I think I have problems with this in some ways. It doesn't mean I will ever have the omniscience, omnipotence, or omnipresence of God, but that I can have spiritual children. I guess in some ways creation that I have lordship over. I don't really know, it was pretty confusing, coming from the background I do. I had trouble finding info on the Internet to clarify.
4. And obviously they believe that the book of Mormon is God's word in addition to the Bible... it's "Another testament of Jesus Christ." The way the guys explained it to me, it's just making the Bible up to date with stuff today, without really adding or taking away from the Bible, just making it current. But at the same time, with the little I know, there are additions. Stuff that is stated like law, as things to abstain from... but maybe it is for today what the Levitical law was for it's day. Regardless, Christ has freed us from the harshness of the law, so I'm not sure.

There are certainly more difference, almost all of them I don't know of, but these seem to be the important differences. The rest is just cosmetic (I think). Coming from a more traditional Christian background, some of this sounded weird, hocus pokus stuff. But when you take a step back and look at our Bible, there's a lot of weird, hocus pokus stuff there. How can I so readily accept one because I was raised being taught it was the Word of God, and deny the other, just because someone other than I believes it because they were raised being taught it was the Word of God.

What I love about my new Mormon friends is that they are constantly encouraging me, and I'm sure everyone, to not just read the Book of Mormon, but to pray about it. Ask God if this is his Word. It's like they don't want me to just take their word for it. I wish more pastors did that. Some do, but I don't know if they always mean it.

I'd encourage you to get some education on this faith, which is really a Christian faith with a few differences. Order a book of Mormon and talk to the guys (girls?) that come visit you. It will probably help you learn about God and what you believe more, and will no doubt expand your witness.

We'll see, maybe God will reveal some truth in all of this. If I were to become Mormon, I'd definitely want to be... A New Kind of Mormon.


:::For those who may be extremely concerned after this. Take a chill pill. It's all ok, relax:::